1 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:07,349 well welcome back from lunch I've 2 00:00:10,740 --> 00:00:10,090 lectured from army 3040 years maybe 3 00:00:14,609 --> 00:00:10,750 longer 4 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:14,619 and that you know the slots I hate right 5 00:00:19,019 --> 00:00:16,890 before lunch because they want to go and 6 00:00:20,999 --> 00:00:19,029 right after cuz they want to go to sleep 7 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:21,009 so I will be raising my voice 8 00:00:25,859 --> 00:00:23,050 occasionally just to wake the ones up if 9 00:00:27,870 --> 00:00:25,869 I see some of this stuff going on this 10 00:00:31,380 --> 00:00:27,880 has been a talk in progress for some 11 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:31,390 time and I've been revising it I 12 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:33,610 literally revised it an hour or two ago 13 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:35,890 based on something that happened in a 14 00:00:39,389 --> 00:00:38,050 prior talk every time somebody said 15 00:00:40,830 --> 00:00:39,399 something that motivated me I made a 16 00:00:43,170 --> 00:00:40,840 slight change most of us just what I'm 17 00:00:43,770 --> 00:00:43,180 saying the slides I think we're gonna be 18 00:00:45,689 --> 00:00:43,780 in sync 19 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:45,699 I believe we're okay in that regard so 20 00:00:52,740 --> 00:00:50,410 hopefully that will work out well yes I 21 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:52,750 it was said this is about a fifty year 22 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:54,250 journey we're gonna be describing here 23 00:00:59,669 --> 00:00:56,170 ain't going to do that in 20 minutes 24 00:01:01,680 --> 00:00:59,679 what I'll do is I'll try to outline kind 25 00:01:04,259 --> 00:01:01,690 of a framework an expert an exponent or 26 00:01:06,060 --> 00:01:04,269 a framework and my goal of course is to 27 00:01:07,770 --> 00:01:06,070 do something is almost impossible in 28 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:07,780 fact most speakers in this conference 29 00:01:11,039 --> 00:01:09,130 and many other speakers and others I've 30 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:11,049 gone to over the decades basically say 31 00:01:15,569 --> 00:01:13,210 well this is what we did no clue where 32 00:01:17,249 --> 00:01:15,579 it is but that's what it is and my job 33 00:01:18,810 --> 00:01:17,259 was to try to figure out how give you 34 00:01:21,300 --> 00:01:18,820 some information that might help you 35 00:01:23,039 --> 00:01:21,310 understand how this might work so we're 36 00:01:24,450 --> 00:01:23,049 going to be drawing from physics we're 37 00:01:26,429 --> 00:01:24,460 gonna be drawing from some rather 38 00:01:28,050 --> 00:01:26,439 lateral thinking and that whatever 39 00:01:30,899 --> 00:01:28,060 you're gonna be hearing is actually a 40 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:30,909 work product that relates believe it or 41 00:01:41,639 --> 00:01:39,610 not to conciliate now as I said I went 42 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:41,649 to the mirror woods like I said and this 43 00:01:46,999 --> 00:01:43,810 these ideas that nature is inherently 44 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:47,009 simple and elegant that we actually 45 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:49,810 distort nature like we complexify it in 46 00:01:53,550 --> 00:01:51,850 our ignorance which is kind of a weird 47 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:53,560 thing to think what we do ignorant it 48 00:01:57,090 --> 00:01:55,210 turns out by the way is a big reason we 49 00:01:58,380 --> 00:01:57,100 don't get it right we're going to see a 50 00:01:59,910 --> 00:01:58,390 number of examples of this we don't 51 00:02:02,370 --> 00:01:59,920 realize how big regards of species 52 00:02:05,670 --> 00:02:02,380 although nature tells us if we simply 53 00:02:07,590 --> 00:02:05,680 pay attention to nature and so whatever 54 00:02:10,770 --> 00:02:07,600 I'd like to do here then is to begin 55 00:02:14,090 --> 00:02:10,780 with this this model of reality kind of 56 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:14,100 progress through it in pieces if I may 57 00:02:19,770 --> 00:02:16,330 one of the things that I've always 58 00:02:22,470 --> 00:02:19,780 wondered where do ideas come from we say 59 00:02:23,820 --> 00:02:22,480 I thought that philosopher says if I 60 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:23,830 think this then it makes a long 61 00:02:28,710 --> 00:02:26,890 convoluted argument I was like to nail 62 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:28,720 him with but where's the thought come 63 00:02:33,660 --> 00:02:31,930 from really what is it covered now the 64 00:02:35,850 --> 00:02:33,670 interesting and the easy answer of 65 00:02:38,390 --> 00:02:35,860 course is consciousness the soundbite 66 00:02:42,590 --> 00:02:38,400 answer which explains of course nothing 67 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:45,990 so as of the 20th century though our 68 00:02:50,430 --> 00:02:47,970 physics has kind of changed the 69 00:02:52,199 --> 00:02:50,440 classical physics of Newton which led to 70 00:02:54,660 --> 00:02:52,209 Einstein's relativity theories of course 71 00:02:57,420 --> 00:02:54,670 comes along but we're well and good and 72 00:03:00,030 --> 00:02:57,430 then quantum theory gets the quantum 73 00:03:02,699 --> 00:03:00,040 theory is different it's like it's 74 00:03:04,050 --> 00:03:02,709 describing a different world maybe it is 75 00:03:07,100 --> 00:03:04,060 sitting in a different world we talked 76 00:03:10,230 --> 00:03:07,110 about the quantum realm did we not we 77 00:03:12,570 --> 00:03:10,240 see these these changes the it's like 78 00:03:14,070 --> 00:03:12,580 the quantum world is more fundamental in 79 00:03:17,100 --> 00:03:14,080 the classical world as produced may 80 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:17,110 produce the classical world in fact this 81 00:03:21,449 --> 00:03:19,330 seems to be reasonable so if the 82 00:03:23,550 --> 00:03:21,459 classical universe may emerge from this 83 00:03:24,990 --> 00:03:23,560 reality maybe we should be paying 84 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:25,000 attention to that maybe we're talking 85 00:03:29,699 --> 00:03:27,970 about a large physical reality in which 86 00:03:31,290 --> 00:03:29,709 there are subsets of physical reality oh 87 00:03:34,590 --> 00:03:31,300 there was our physical laws that we know 88 00:03:37,290 --> 00:03:34,600 and trust that in the universe that 89 00:03:39,030 --> 00:03:37,300 materializes and beyond that universe 90 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:39,040 perhaps beyond an interface of some time 91 00:03:46,830 --> 00:03:43,570 is a non material reality with its own 92 00:03:48,420 --> 00:03:46,840 set of physical laws and there's no 93 00:03:50,430 --> 00:03:48,430 reason to believe those laws are that 94 00:03:52,890 --> 00:03:50,440 related one to the other that's the 95 00:03:56,430 --> 00:03:52,900 first key to everything that is the 96 00:03:58,830 --> 00:03:56,440 first key so perhaps we can say the 97 00:04:01,170 --> 00:03:58,840 universe is indeed produced by this 98 00:04:02,850 --> 00:04:01,180 quantum reality or if you like that's 99 00:04:10,050 --> 00:04:02,860 the tip of the iceberg let's call it a 100 00:04:12,509 --> 00:04:10,060 deep reality a deep reality now it was 101 00:04:13,890 --> 00:04:12,519 interesting to note that Niels Bohr was 102 00:04:15,390 --> 00:04:13,900 one of the people who kind of copped on 103 00:04:18,539 --> 00:04:15,400 to this whole thing way back in the 104 00:04:21,479 --> 00:04:18,549 early 20th century when he said about 105 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:21,489 1930 at the quantum realm as he knew it 106 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:23,330 is invisible 107 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:25,810 accessible on analyzable and 108 00:04:31,119 --> 00:04:28,849 incomprehensible he literally says I 109 00:04:33,429 --> 00:04:31,129 don't know I don't care the stuff works 110 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:33,439 we're done I'm going hold on going out 111 00:04:39,369 --> 00:04:36,610 to lunch that's exactly what he said and 112 00:04:42,070 --> 00:04:39,379 I would argue that deep reality has the 113 00:04:46,390 --> 00:04:42,080 same features deep reality has exactly 114 00:04:49,179 --> 00:04:46,400 the same features we are limited by 115 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:49,189 Lightspeed by quantum uncertainty by our 116 00:04:54,129 --> 00:04:51,650 own biases nature seems to be doing 117 00:04:58,059 --> 00:04:54,139 something pretty definitive and the 118 00:05:01,209 --> 00:04:58,069 upshot of the whole thing is that we 119 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:01,219 don't know what we don't know which 120 00:05:06,189 --> 00:05:03,289 means by corollary that nothing or 121 00:05:07,300 --> 00:05:06,199 anything is possible or impossible if 122 00:05:09,550 --> 00:05:07,310 you actually think something impossible 123 00:05:11,189 --> 00:05:09,560 it's probably more of a statement about 124 00:05:14,670 --> 00:05:11,199 our ignorance there is that word again 125 00:05:19,570 --> 00:05:14,680 than our knowledge skeptics take note 126 00:05:20,860 --> 00:05:19,580 your honor you've been notified so I'm 127 00:05:22,209 --> 00:05:20,870 going to claim here that we live in what 128 00:05:24,339 --> 00:05:22,219 I'm going to call a produced universe 129 00:05:27,219 --> 00:05:24,349 this is a not to scale graphic 130 00:05:30,100 --> 00:05:27,229 representation and you can see we have 131 00:05:32,439 --> 00:05:30,110 this deep reality the little blue dot is 132 00:05:35,379 --> 00:05:32,449 the one and only the universe we really 133 00:05:37,089 --> 00:05:35,389 need this is a very limited model no 134 00:05:39,790 --> 00:05:37,099 extra universes we don't need and can't 135 00:05:41,890 --> 00:05:39,800 justify I'm emerging from that deep 136 00:05:44,230 --> 00:05:41,900 reality from a reality blueprint our 137 00:05:46,990 --> 00:05:44,240 events we could might call material and 138 00:05:48,579 --> 00:05:47,000 mental now I think these are actually 139 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:48,589 one thing that have different behaviors 140 00:05:53,050 --> 00:05:50,690 in actual fact but let's not go there we 141 00:05:54,610 --> 00:05:53,060 don't have that how much time the key 142 00:05:56,409 --> 00:05:54,620 part of this is the reality blueprint 143 00:05:59,079 --> 00:05:56,419 I'm going to argue this reality 144 00:06:00,339 --> 00:05:59,089 blueprint contains the information and 145 00:06:01,390 --> 00:06:00,349 I'll come back to what I mean by that in 146 00:06:04,290 --> 00:06:01,400 a minute because the definition is 147 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:04,300 important of states of matter and mind 148 00:06:09,820 --> 00:06:07,490 that's loosely translated those states 149 00:06:11,619 --> 00:06:09,830 are patterns and they are projected or 150 00:06:13,749 --> 00:06:11,629 they are realized in the produced 151 00:06:15,219 --> 00:06:13,759 universe as what we call matter events 152 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:15,229 mind events and things the things that 153 00:06:19,659 --> 00:06:17,289 are happening right now 154 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:19,669 these are transformed in a deep level of 155 00:06:22,540 --> 00:06:21,050 reality what distinguishes them by the 156 00:06:26,379 --> 00:06:22,550 way are the nature of these transforms 157 00:06:28,589 --> 00:06:26,389 and that in turn is why things change 158 00:06:30,879 --> 00:06:28,599 because that deep reality is changing 159 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:30,889 mikeam seemed to keep seeking even in 160 00:06:35,649 --> 00:06:33,770 our discussions this morning for 161 00:06:36,390 --> 00:06:35,659 something else beyond what's going on in 162 00:06:38,430 --> 00:06:36,400 our unit 163 00:06:42,060 --> 00:06:38,440 this is my proposal of what that 164 00:06:43,140 --> 00:06:42,070 something is and the spewpa is 165 00:06:45,629 --> 00:06:43,150 interesting we'll talk a little bit more 166 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:45,639 about it but that's the basic idea these 167 00:06:49,770 --> 00:06:47,530 patterns which aren't actually 168 00:06:51,719 --> 00:06:49,780 information so we talk about information 169 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:51,729 this is what I conceptualize is 170 00:06:57,659 --> 00:06:53,650 producing that universe what is 171 00:07:00,900 --> 00:06:57,669 information ironically is actually 172 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:00,910 identified by an no longer active entry 173 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:03,250 in the Oxford English Dictionary it's 174 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:05,410 archaic the right definitions archaic 175 00:07:09,540 --> 00:07:07,090 and the infant and the definition is 176 00:07:11,580 --> 00:07:09,550 from the root of the Latin word inform 177 00:07:13,290 --> 00:07:11,590 RA to put form into something according 178 00:07:14,820 --> 00:07:13,300 to Oxford we don't use that no more 179 00:07:17,879 --> 00:07:14,830 which is ironic because that's the right 180 00:07:20,250 --> 00:07:17,889 one to put form into something so this 181 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:20,260 is an information process not in the 182 00:07:23,969 --> 00:07:21,970 sense of knowledge in the sense of 183 00:07:26,340 --> 00:07:23,979 creation and by the way several 184 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:26,350 scientific philosophers are on board 185 00:07:30,770 --> 00:07:28,810 with that idea now this idea of a 186 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:30,780 producer reality is kind of interesting 187 00:07:35,189 --> 00:07:32,650 one of the things that implica 188 00:07:36,510 --> 00:07:35,199 implicates is the concept of causality 189 00:07:38,310 --> 00:07:36,520 to a lot of discussion about causality 190 00:07:40,260 --> 00:07:38,320 you may have noticed yesterday today and 191 00:07:42,060 --> 00:07:40,270 we all kind of make an assumption about 192 00:07:45,180 --> 00:07:42,070 causality and this is what are the 193 00:07:46,469 --> 00:07:45,190 implications of deep reality I think no 194 00:07:48,060 --> 00:07:46,479 one in this room would disagree that 195 00:07:50,909 --> 00:07:48,070 this is a valid demonstration of 196 00:07:53,190 --> 00:07:50,919 causality cause-effect ignore this and 197 00:07:56,690 --> 00:07:53,200 please for your own the cheap seats 198 00:08:00,060 --> 00:07:56,700 cause effect and over their cause effect 199 00:08:04,279 --> 00:08:00,070 nobody disagrees right but in the deep 200 00:08:08,790 --> 00:08:04,289 reality view we have this model cause 201 00:08:11,430 --> 00:08:08,800 effect correlation not causation why 202 00:08:14,190 --> 00:08:11,440 because all causation is in the deep 203 00:08:17,550 --> 00:08:14,200 reality not in the universe the universe 204 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:17,560 is not causally closed or put more 205 00:08:21,210 --> 00:08:19,090 bluntly for the philosophers in the room 206 00:08:24,029 --> 00:08:21,220 physicalism is wrong in this regard 207 00:08:26,730 --> 00:08:24,039 there is no causal closure as we 208 00:08:28,170 --> 00:08:26,740 normally stated in philosophy and I just 209 00:08:30,300 --> 00:08:28,180 saw Paul Smith smile and I know I got up 210 00:08:31,890 --> 00:08:30,310 a question coming because I know this 211 00:08:35,550 --> 00:08:31,900 guy did that this is this one once 212 00:08:37,110 --> 00:08:35,560 before oh good okay so anyway so what 213 00:08:38,699 --> 00:08:37,120 happens if I take away the cause which 214 00:08:45,150 --> 00:08:38,709 is actually in deep reality hiding what 215 00:08:47,860 --> 00:08:45,160 do I get again ignore the hand what have 216 00:08:51,430 --> 00:08:47,870 I just explained anybody 217 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:51,440 Dean you wanna try it you hear I've 218 00:08:58,660 --> 00:08:56,770 explained MMI pk poltergeists healing 219 00:08:59,950 --> 00:08:58,670 bill was supposed to be right there I 220 00:09:03,520 --> 00:08:59,960 had a great line for Bill but we'll have 221 00:09:05,620 --> 00:09:03,530 to let it go the point is the point is 222 00:09:07,690 --> 00:09:05,630 this explains it it's simple its elegant 223 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:07,700 all we had to do was move causation to 224 00:09:12,580 --> 00:09:10,490 deep reality that's the kind of stuff 225 00:09:14,980 --> 00:09:12,590 we're dealing with this is not rocket 226 00:09:17,260 --> 00:09:14,990 science folks it doesn't have to be 227 00:09:19,150 --> 00:09:17,270 other implications or common assumptions 228 00:09:20,770 --> 00:09:19,160 we may we want to revisit that 229 00:09:21,790 --> 00:09:20,780 consciousness creates reality we've 230 00:09:22,570 --> 00:09:21,800 already hit a little bit about that 231 00:09:24,310 --> 00:09:22,580 earlier on 232 00:09:25,990 --> 00:09:24,320 thanks to Garrett for his wonderful 233 00:09:27,790 --> 00:09:26,000 explanation he cut about five minutes 234 00:09:30,060 --> 00:09:27,800 something my talk thank you so much and 235 00:09:32,940 --> 00:09:30,070 char most hard problem of consciousness 236 00:09:35,560 --> 00:09:32,950 I'll talk about that too as advertised 237 00:09:36,940 --> 00:09:35,570 before I proceed however I would like to 238 00:09:38,380 --> 00:09:36,950 say one more thing about something that 239 00:09:42,100 --> 00:09:38,390 happened this morning just not Roger 240 00:09:44,890 --> 00:09:42,110 Nelson as I said it revised this thing 241 00:09:47,170 --> 00:09:44,900 just before we started and as I said 242 00:09:50,050 --> 00:09:47,180 earlier I had those feelings in the 243 00:09:51,490 --> 00:09:50,060 mirror once and I had a lot of slides I 244 00:09:53,560 --> 00:09:51,500 had to pitch out and one of my quotes 245 00:09:55,330 --> 00:09:53,570 because it happened in the Muir Woods 246 00:09:58,030 --> 00:09:55,340 was from John Muir I could to were from 247 00:10:01,300 --> 00:09:58,040 John Muir and one of those quotes Roger 248 00:10:04,540 --> 00:10:01,310 was the same one you used about hitching 249 00:10:06,550 --> 00:10:04,550 reality if you don't believe in 250 00:10:08,460 --> 00:10:06,560 synchronicity is a retrocausality okay 251 00:10:10,660 --> 00:10:08,470 but kind of pay attention here folks 252 00:10:11,860 --> 00:10:10,670 this happens to me all the time so it's 253 00:10:15,180 --> 00:10:11,870 not spinning but I thought I'd share it 254 00:10:19,630 --> 00:10:15,190 with you doesn't kind of interesting 255 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:19,640 okay so if an accepting says well that's 256 00:10:23,020 --> 00:10:20,930 all well and good I mean you got a cute 257 00:10:29,350 --> 00:10:23,030 little idea there I show me some 258 00:10:31,870 --> 00:10:29,360 evidence okay no problemo how do we 259 00:10:34,090 --> 00:10:31,880 violate causal closure we find 260 00:10:36,010 --> 00:10:34,100 uncontroversial a causal anomaly in the 261 00:10:37,630 --> 00:10:36,020 known material universe and thanks to 262 00:10:39,670 --> 00:10:37,640 Professor Rupert Sheldrake in defense of 263 00:10:40,210 --> 00:10:39,680 his marker morphic resonance theory we 264 00:10:42,580 --> 00:10:40,220 got it 265 00:10:44,710 --> 00:10:42,590 the Quantum Jumping electron atomic 266 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:44,720 physics which suggests that deep reality 267 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:46,250 may know something about materialization 268 00:10:50,020 --> 00:10:48,530 and dematerialization the spontaneously 269 00:10:52,690 --> 00:10:50,030 crystallizing an organic compound known 270 00:10:54,250 --> 00:10:52,700 for centuries and chemistry spontaneous 271 00:10:55,780 --> 00:10:54,260 human thoughts subjective consciousness 272 00:10:57,460 --> 00:10:55,790 that's a kind of anomaly it's and it's 273 00:10:59,320 --> 00:10:57,470 uncontroversial because there's no doubt 274 00:11:00,759 --> 00:10:59,330 it happens a bit more controversially 275 00:11:02,769 --> 00:11:00,769 everything we talked about 276 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:02,779 rhe science but it's the same basic 277 00:11:10,929 --> 00:11:08,569 thing now we didn't talk about one other 278 00:11:12,579 --> 00:11:10,939 interpretation of quantum physics this 279 00:11:14,759 --> 00:11:12,589 morning it happens to my favorite 280 00:11:17,229 --> 00:11:14,769 because it's a very good example of 281 00:11:19,449 --> 00:11:17,239 production about a production theory the 282 00:11:20,979 --> 00:11:19,459 hypothesis we're talking about this is a 283 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:20,989 visual representation of what's called 284 00:11:25,929 --> 00:11:23,689 the bohmian interpretation by david bohm 285 00:11:27,609 --> 00:11:25,939 published in 1952 inspired by Albert 286 00:11:29,590 --> 00:11:27,619 Einstein who hated the coppa noggin for 287 00:11:31,689 --> 00:11:29,600 various reasons and what it basically 288 00:11:33,249 --> 00:11:31,699 says is active global information that's 289 00:11:35,319 --> 00:11:33,259 like the reality blueprint we talked 290 00:11:37,660 --> 00:11:35,329 about earlier it's producers for the 291 00:11:39,669 --> 00:11:37,670 content of the material universe and its 292 00:11:41,949 --> 00:11:39,679 hiding in something called the implicit 293 00:11:43,989 --> 00:11:41,959 order in Bohm's terminology that's my 294 00:11:44,979 --> 00:11:43,999 deep reality so it's a very slow 295 00:11:46,389 --> 00:11:44,989 snapping there's some technical 296 00:11:48,789 --> 00:11:46,399 differences I won't get into for lack of 297 00:11:49,869 --> 00:11:48,799 time but it's very close to the kind of 298 00:11:52,989 --> 00:11:49,879 thing and there's several as we said 299 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:52,999 earlier several theories that are very 300 00:11:56,139 --> 00:11:54,170 similar to kind of follow this 301 00:11:58,329 --> 00:11:56,149 production hypothesis so there's quite a 302 00:12:00,189 --> 00:11:58,339 bit of work in theoretical physics that 303 00:12:03,970 --> 00:12:00,199 follows along these ideas this is not 304 00:12:05,410 --> 00:12:03,980 just my silly idea a by contrast the 305 00:12:06,549 --> 00:12:05,420 Copenhagen interpretation which has kind 306 00:12:09,699 --> 00:12:06,559 of been beat to death already so I can 307 00:12:11,499 --> 00:12:09,709 slip right over this mostly actually 308 00:12:13,239 --> 00:12:11,509 predicts a collapse collapse is unique 309 00:12:14,439 --> 00:12:13,249 to Copenhagen I believe I don't know of 310 00:12:16,869 --> 00:12:14,449 any other interpretation that actually 311 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:16,879 talks about a collapse in this way but 312 00:12:20,470 --> 00:12:18,290 the dirty little secret that wasn't 313 00:12:22,119 --> 00:12:20,480 mentioned today earlier I want to share 314 00:12:24,669 --> 00:12:22,129 with you because a lot of people don't 315 00:12:26,710 --> 00:12:24,679 know this there is no mathematical 316 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:26,720 support whatsoever in the Copenhagen 317 00:12:32,650 --> 00:12:28,970 interpretation for the prediction of the 318 00:12:35,710 --> 00:12:32,660 collapse none in fact that's what bone 319 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:35,720 found when he did his theory and what he 320 00:12:39,030 --> 00:12:37,610 found out about that missing variable 321 00:12:41,049 --> 00:12:39,040 the co so-called quantum potential 322 00:12:42,999 --> 00:12:41,059 informed him for the first time I think 323 00:12:45,189 --> 00:12:43,009 in the history of science as to how the 324 00:12:46,929 --> 00:12:45,199 collapse works and guess what folks 325 00:12:49,989 --> 00:12:46,939 business in the room loosen up it is an 326 00:12:52,780 --> 00:12:49,999 energy momentum transfer event energy 327 00:12:55,030 --> 00:12:52,790 momentum transfer event that to me is 328 00:12:57,009 --> 00:12:55,040 really interesting it has implications I 329 00:12:58,539 --> 00:12:57,019 won't get into here but the fact that I 330 00:12:59,590 --> 00:12:58,549 eat a lot of physicists who seem to have 331 00:13:01,509 --> 00:12:59,600 limited knowledge of the Bamiyan 332 00:13:03,009 --> 00:13:01,519 interpretation tells me maybe that 333 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:03,019 limited knowledge is one of the reasons 334 00:13:06,460 --> 00:13:04,730 that some of the ideas coming from 335 00:13:09,999 --> 00:13:06,470 Copenhagen have snuck into our 336 00:13:12,010 --> 00:13:10,009 vernacular so quickly I don't buy it for 337 00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:12,020 a minute 338 00:13:16,449 --> 00:13:14,720 so the idea then from binoy Minh and 339 00:13:18,610 --> 00:13:16,459 others this idea came along something 340 00:13:21,070 --> 00:13:18,620 non-material must cause the collapse if 341 00:13:23,949 --> 00:13:21,080 you read von Neumann you will see he 342 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:23,959 talks about non material effect those 343 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:25,370 are the words he writes in his papers 344 00:13:29,050 --> 00:13:26,810 and books he doesn't talk about 345 00:13:31,269 --> 00:13:29,060 consciousness I don't really know who 346 00:13:32,530 --> 00:13:31,279 got it first we like to say Wigner I may 347 00:13:34,690 --> 00:13:32,540 have been to rock who know Heisenberg 348 00:13:36,190 --> 00:13:34,700 who knows somebody said though non 349 00:13:38,860 --> 00:13:36,200 material equal consciousness and from 350 00:13:41,740 --> 00:13:38,870 that came the whole thing it was a bad 351 00:13:44,650 --> 00:13:41,750 guess a very bad guess because it 352 00:13:47,829 --> 00:13:44,660 violates the basic law of physics based 353 00:13:49,690 --> 00:13:47,839 on philosophy sorry of logic you explain 354 00:13:51,370 --> 00:13:49,700 one unknown with another the unknown of 355 00:13:54,250 --> 00:13:51,380 the collapse is explained with the 356 00:13:56,650 --> 00:13:54,260 unknown of first observers or 357 00:13:59,350 --> 00:13:56,660 consciousness so when you hear somebody 358 00:14:01,480 --> 00:13:59,360 say and you hear a lot you may hear it 359 00:14:02,740 --> 00:14:01,490 more consciousness collapses the 360 00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:02,750 wavefunction observers collapse the 361 00:14:06,310 --> 00:14:05,120 wavefunction blah blah blah they are 362 00:14:08,260 --> 00:14:06,320 really saying something that is not 363 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:08,270 supported mathematically not having an 364 00:14:13,300 --> 00:14:10,370 empirical proof per se something that's 365 00:14:14,949 --> 00:14:13,310 a bad guess at least in my opinion so 366 00:14:17,380 --> 00:14:14,959 that's the other reason to dislike the 367 00:14:19,630 --> 00:14:17,390 Copenhagen and the fact of the matter is 368 00:14:22,110 --> 00:14:19,640 important to note all quantum 369 00:14:24,340 --> 00:14:22,120 experiments to date that I know of and 370 00:14:26,620 --> 00:14:24,350 experts tell me this is right all 371 00:14:28,269 --> 00:14:26,630 competeing all experiments including the 372 00:14:29,740 --> 00:14:28,279 ones that supposedly show that observers 373 00:14:32,350 --> 00:14:29,750 collapse the wave function and create 374 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:32,360 reality are explainable both at least on 375 00:14:36,340 --> 00:14:33,770 the Copenhagen and bubbling and equally 376 00:14:37,269 --> 00:14:36,350 you cannot use the two to differentiate 377 00:14:39,220 --> 00:14:37,279 between the two through the method of 378 00:14:40,860 --> 00:14:39,230 doing I don't know about it and maybe 379 00:14:42,639 --> 00:14:40,870 some exotic experiments that might but 380 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:42,649 everybody who looks at the Copenhagen 381 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:44,690 bohmian side-by-side they find that 382 00:14:47,620 --> 00:14:46,130 there's no difference at that point is 383 00:14:49,810 --> 00:14:47,630 when you start saying what else do they 384 00:14:51,970 --> 00:14:49,820 tell us that bohmian moves ahead and we 385 00:14:53,829 --> 00:14:51,980 don't care about that here really so I'm 386 00:14:55,930 --> 00:14:53,839 gonna blast through these point I want 387 00:14:57,610 --> 00:14:55,940 to make is deeply ality hides most of 388 00:14:59,250 --> 00:14:57,620 our physics that's the key point I want 389 00:15:04,000 --> 00:14:59,260 to make 390 00:15:05,260 --> 00:15:04,010 now how about Sharman's problem that's 391 00:15:06,819 --> 00:15:05,270 the reason you're here isn't it you saw 392 00:15:08,170 --> 00:15:06,829 Chalmers problem in the program and you 393 00:15:09,730 --> 00:15:08,180 said I'm gonna be there I want to hear 394 00:15:10,380 --> 00:15:09,740 the solution to Chalmers problem by 395 00:15:15,810 --> 00:15:10,390 golly 396 00:15:17,889 --> 00:15:15,820 well kinda there is an issue though and 397 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:17,899 cleverly segue into the theme of the 398 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:20,650 Congress it has to do with conciliations 399 00:15:24,210 --> 00:15:22,970 so what's Chalmers actually telling a 400 00:15:26,700 --> 00:15:24,220 asking us to do 401 00:15:28,020 --> 00:15:26,710 he's asking us to build a bridge so I 402 00:15:29,910 --> 00:15:28,030 thought this was original statement of 403 00:15:32,370 --> 00:15:29,920 the harp doll really says and I quote 404 00:15:35,970 --> 00:15:32,380 here between the physics of mass energy 405 00:15:38,070 --> 00:15:35,980 on the one hand and the undeniable 406 00:15:39,540 --> 00:15:38,080 subjective consciousness or experience 407 00:15:44,490 --> 00:15:39,550 of subjective consciousness on the other 408 00:15:45,870 --> 00:15:44,500 and quote highlights mine but what he's 409 00:15:47,820 --> 00:15:45,880 talking about here is subjective 410 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:47,830 consciousness he calls the program 411 00:15:53,580 --> 00:15:50,890 natural dualism there is no mention 412 00:15:55,410 --> 00:15:53,590 initially of idealism or primacy of 413 00:15:57,330 --> 00:15:55,420 consciousness there is no mention of 414 00:16:00,870 --> 00:15:57,340 ubiquitous self-consciousness or pen 415 00:16:02,850 --> 00:16:00,880 psychism that's important I believe but 416 00:16:06,060 --> 00:16:02,860 has Chalmers unwittingly 417 00:16:08,730 --> 00:16:06,070 set a trap for us because to build a 418 00:16:10,290 --> 00:16:08,740 bridge you need foundations it sounds 419 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:10,300 like a material and material non 420 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:13,330 material deep reality both ends we know 421 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:14,650 about material reality enough to 422 00:16:18,900 --> 00:16:17,050 probably build the bridge but do we know 423 00:16:22,140 --> 00:16:18,910 enough to build the other end of the 424 00:16:25,650 --> 00:16:22,150 bridge we can't get into deep reality we 425 00:16:28,110 --> 00:16:25,660 have to guess about it so if we solve 426 00:16:29,970 --> 00:16:28,120 the hard problem we may have a problem 427 00:16:30,950 --> 00:16:29,980 here the bridge may be a bridge to 428 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:30,960 nowhere 429 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:34,570 in other words on this view the problem 430 00:16:39,900 --> 00:16:37,090 is insoluble if we apply standard 431 00:16:43,470 --> 00:16:39,910 empiricism but Parian falsifiability and 432 00:16:45,540 --> 00:16:43,480 things like that but what if we change 433 00:16:48,030 --> 00:16:45,550 our tactics and this has been alluded to 434 00:16:50,550 --> 00:16:48,040 several times in this conference what if 435 00:16:53,090 --> 00:16:50,560 we say instead of taking our traditional 436 00:16:58,290 --> 00:16:53,100 approaches we use abduction we use 437 00:17:01,650 --> 00:16:58,300 various other forms of understanding can 438 00:17:03,810 --> 00:17:01,660 we build something useful well the 439 00:17:05,220 --> 00:17:03,820 answer is yes how do I know so well I'm 440 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:05,230 not just blowing smoke about this 441 00:17:10,679 --> 00:17:07,930 because this entire model is an exercise 442 00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:10,689 in precisely that I'm not proposing it 443 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:12,910 I've already done it and that's the link 444 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:15,730 to conciliate so this whole model which 445 00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:17,050 by the way will be published in some 446 00:17:22,260 --> 00:17:18,910 major technical journal I believe 447 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:22,270 shortly and I think the book that called 448 00:17:25,939 --> 00:17:23,770 phenomenal lives which I'm writing right 449 00:17:28,140 --> 00:17:25,949 now I think we may have a publisher so 450 00:17:30,150 --> 00:17:28,150 it'll probably be coming out hopefully 451 00:17:32,370 --> 00:17:30,160 toward the end of the year which is my 452 00:17:35,550 --> 00:17:32,380 scientific memoir and contains all this 453 00:17:37,890 --> 00:17:35,560 stuff in laymen detail and of course I'm 454 00:17:39,060 --> 00:17:37,900 doing videos because let's face it 455 00:17:40,470 --> 00:17:39,070 thing exists on the until it's on the 456 00:17:43,140 --> 00:17:40,480 internet right nothing's real so don't 457 00:17:45,990 --> 00:17:43,150 do this but the point is we can fix this 458 00:17:50,190 --> 00:17:46,000 by simply using these new tactics which 459 00:17:52,020 --> 00:17:50,200 I've used in this and one of those new 460 00:17:55,020 --> 00:17:52,030 tactics to develop this model called GI 461 00:17:58,230 --> 00:17:55,030 3r is essentially to ask a key question 462 00:18:01,650 --> 00:17:58,240 that we never ever ask I'm about to give 463 00:18:02,970 --> 00:18:01,660 you a secret a very important secret if 464 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:02,980 you're in research please listen 465 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:05,770 carefully there is a secret question 466 00:18:14,550 --> 00:18:11,170 it's almost a mandala and what it is is 467 00:18:17,250 --> 00:18:14,560 the word why why is anything the way it 468 00:18:19,020 --> 00:18:17,260 is is so important I've given her the 469 00:18:20,700 --> 00:18:19,030 name I call it the Genesis question not 470 00:18:24,060 --> 00:18:20,710 in the term of creation but it's a 471 00:18:25,350 --> 00:18:24,070 question you ask you ask this question 472 00:18:28,410 --> 00:18:25,360 guess what happens 473 00:18:29,970 --> 00:18:28,420 nature responds many of you may know 474 00:18:31,530 --> 00:18:29,980 that von Neumann said but quantum 475 00:18:32,970 --> 00:18:31,540 physics is really telling us is how we 476 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:32,980 acquire knowledge not so much what's out 477 00:18:37,110 --> 00:18:35,050 there but what's in here this is an 478 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:37,120 exercise in this exact thing practical 479 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:39,490 exercise when I started doing this years 480 00:18:45,900 --> 00:18:43,170 ago it was just an intuitive thought 481 00:18:49,500 --> 00:18:45,910 kind of like the I Ching in 64 something 482 00:18:52,770 --> 00:18:49,510 deep I realized that this was actually 483 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:52,780 digging revelations across first class 484 00:18:56,430 --> 00:18:54,730 revelations a lot of the questions were 485 00:18:59,880 --> 00:18:56,440 answered in this way so I trust this a 486 00:19:00,990 --> 00:18:59,890 lot but with a caveat those ideas that 487 00:19:05,340 --> 00:19:01,000 come up out of the deep reality in 488 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:05,350 nature on my view can be lies what's the 489 00:19:10,590 --> 00:19:08,290 evidence we believed at one time the 490 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:10,600 nature the world was flat most of the 491 00:19:14,550 --> 00:19:11,650 world believed it where did that idea 492 00:19:16,980 --> 00:19:14,560 come from deep reality so scenario is 493 00:19:19,740 --> 00:19:16,990 it's not that deep reality tells you the 494 00:19:22,500 --> 00:19:19,750 truth all the time it will give you a 495 00:19:23,940 --> 00:19:22,510 chance if you do it right do it wrong 496 00:19:26,460 --> 00:19:23,950 and you'll get a host a lies on a deep 497 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:26,470 reality just remember that I used to 498 00:19:28,980 --> 00:19:27,850 think that I only nature would only give 499 00:19:30,900 --> 00:19:28,990 you the truth of course that turned out 500 00:19:32,220 --> 00:19:30,910 to be totally wrong so the model is 501 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:32,230 simple and elegant just like nature 502 00:19:36,180 --> 00:19:34,570 you'll recall and it's complete now 503 00:19:39,030 --> 00:19:36,190 here's the most fantastical claim I'm 504 00:19:42,780 --> 00:19:39,040 going to make it actually explains 505 00:19:45,390 --> 00:19:42,790 everything I have gone to countless and 506 00:19:48,540 --> 00:19:45,400 I mean countless seminars read countless 507 00:19:51,210 --> 00:19:48,550 papers and all disciplines thought about 508 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:51,220 this very deeply for twenty thirty years 509 00:19:54,300 --> 00:19:53,170 I held this back by the way for seven 510 00:19:55,740 --> 00:19:54,310 years because I was looking for 511 00:19:59,160 --> 00:19:55,750 something in science that's blew me 512 00:20:01,950 --> 00:19:59,170 apart haven't found it yet we're sitting 513 00:20:04,230 --> 00:20:01,960 there so Daryl been at the tuning 16 514 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:04,240 meeting and his people he had told I 515 00:20:07,980 --> 00:20:06,610 told him a bit about the model and his 516 00:20:09,180 --> 00:20:07,990 people came up and we got crazier and 517 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:09,190 crazier and Bengston is doing about 518 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:10,450 cancer thinking all this kind of stuff 519 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:12,730 all that's going on after each 520 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:14,410 presentation is leaned over to Daryl and 521 00:20:18,870 --> 00:20:16,170 I said got that covered 522 00:20:20,430 --> 00:20:18,880 got that covered after five or six days 523 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:20,440 he finally acknowledged okay I get I get 524 00:20:24,180 --> 00:20:22,810 it your model worked so but the point is 525 00:20:24,870 --> 00:20:24,190 it disk and this is crazy I mean I don't 526 00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:24,880 believe it 527 00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:26,110 I never thought I would develop anything 528 00:20:30,180 --> 00:20:28,000 like this well they may have set an 529 00:20:32,670 --> 00:20:30,190 intention way back when when I asked the 530 00:20:34,170 --> 00:20:32,680 innocent question I wonder what a model 531 00:20:36,630 --> 00:20:34,180 or theory of everything would look like 532 00:20:37,890 --> 00:20:36,640 never intended to build one but that may 533 00:20:40,410 --> 00:20:37,900 have been the starting point in actual 534 00:20:42,990 --> 00:20:40,420 fact or maybe on a retro cause of you 535 00:20:45,060 --> 00:20:43,000 that was really the end and missus 536 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:45,070 closer to the start after all in the 537 00:20:48,210 --> 00:20:46,570 retro causal view the end is the 538 00:20:49,410 --> 00:20:48,220 beginning the beings in I'm sounding 539 00:20:51,990 --> 00:20:49,420 like Eastern mystic I'm going to shut up 540 00:20:53,940 --> 00:20:52,000 but you have the idea so what is gi3 our 541 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:53,950 stand for it's an acronym of these 542 00:20:59,250 --> 00:20:56,770 features his goal seeking intention 543 00:21:01,470 --> 00:20:59,260 directed information mediated that's the 544 00:21:03,750 --> 00:21:01,480 blueprint part interaction interaction 545 00:21:08,430 --> 00:21:03,760 driven that's the transformation part 546 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:08,440 and retro causally based what does it 547 00:21:11,790 --> 00:21:10,090 mean to be retro causally placed this is 548 00:21:13,140 --> 00:21:11,800 a really interesting thing to me has a 549 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:13,150 lot of implications and I can only touch 550 00:21:18,300 --> 00:21:15,690 the surface this says that the blueprint 551 00:21:20,190 --> 00:21:18,310 think of a tree lying on its side grows 552 00:21:22,350 --> 00:21:20,200 backward in time from the end of all 553 00:21:24,060 --> 00:21:22,360 reality to the beginning which 554 00:21:25,860 --> 00:21:24,070 encompasses of course multiple universes 555 00:21:29,250 --> 00:21:25,870 only only one we don't need multiples 556 00:21:32,610 --> 00:21:29,260 and this trunk branches it's and it sets 557 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:32,620 goals during the actual building of the 558 00:21:36,150 --> 00:21:34,570 of the blueprint those trigger 559 00:21:37,830 --> 00:21:36,160 intentions which are really a system 560 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:37,840 requests to deep reality in actual fact 561 00:21:41,820 --> 00:21:39,970 humans can set them and others can you 562 00:21:43,140 --> 00:21:41,830 think about your work you'll see a lot 563 00:21:43,770 --> 00:21:43,150 of places where this model starts to 564 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:43,780 make sense 565 00:21:47,190 --> 00:21:45,970 they say intention to this and well we 566 00:21:50,430 --> 00:21:47,200 can issue intentions but so can deep 567 00:21:52,140 --> 00:21:50,440 reality and if you think of an intention 568 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:52,150 you're not doing a deep reality's doing 569 00:21:55,980 --> 00:21:54,250 it linked to goals which we can't see 570 00:21:59,400 --> 00:21:55,990 and having priorities we don't know 571 00:22:02,010 --> 00:21:59,410 about again it's all hidden this is why 572 00:22:03,419 --> 00:22:02,020 we can't do a consistent experiment the 573 00:22:06,839 --> 00:22:03,429 closer we get 574 00:22:09,599 --> 00:22:06,849 the non-material aspects of the pail of 575 00:22:11,789 --> 00:22:09,609 the whole system the more unstable it 576 00:22:13,889 --> 00:22:11,799 gets from our point of view the closer 577 00:22:15,599 --> 00:22:13,899 we get to the material stuff those 578 00:22:17,459 --> 00:22:15,609 transformations are more stable because 579 00:22:19,499 --> 00:22:17,469 those are our physical laws and basis 580 00:22:21,089 --> 00:22:19,509 and so as a result we see different 581 00:22:22,469 --> 00:22:21,099 differential behaviors when people are 582 00:22:24,029 --> 00:22:22,479 talking about well this does even this 583 00:22:25,079 --> 00:22:24,039 morning people were saying well it 584 00:22:27,419 --> 00:22:25,089 worked with early skin but didn't work 585 00:22:28,769 --> 00:22:27,429 into those this all I was nodding 586 00:22:30,419 --> 00:22:28,779 they're saying yep that makes sense that 587 00:22:33,209 --> 00:22:30,429 makes sense that mean not one thing said 588 00:22:35,369 --> 00:22:33,219 in this room has it all any way shape or 589 00:22:37,950 --> 00:22:35,379 form confuse me the model is that clean 590 00:22:39,329 --> 00:22:37,960 it really is and if you apply it but you 591 00:22:42,060 --> 00:22:39,339 understand more about it I think you'll 592 00:22:44,999 --> 00:22:42,070 agree with me there's also Universal 593 00:22:46,799 --> 00:22:45,009 Clark because check this out relativity 594 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:46,809 theory of course says there is no 595 00:22:49,619 --> 00:22:48,369 privileged reference right every 596 00:22:51,539 --> 00:22:49,629 physicist in the room knows that and we 597 00:22:53,430 --> 00:22:51,549 accept it and they're true you don't 598 00:22:56,310 --> 00:22:53,440 need it in 4d space-time you don't need 599 00:22:59,489 --> 00:22:56,320 it and as long as you're in the universe 600 00:23:02,070 --> 00:22:59,499 you're cool but outside the universe 601 00:23:05,129 --> 00:23:02,080 deep reality that is the privileged 602 00:23:06,269 --> 00:23:05,139 reference frame it has a clock by the 603 00:23:08,459 --> 00:23:06,279 way if you believe time doesn't exist 604 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:08,469 you you're not here so don't worry about 605 00:23:12,060 --> 00:23:10,690 it because you got to be a thing time 606 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:12,070 has to exist for stuff to happen in the 607 00:23:15,869 --> 00:23:13,690 deep reality there is a universal clock 608 00:23:17,249 --> 00:23:15,879 indeed reality or there could be which 609 00:23:19,589 --> 00:23:17,259 means everything is being timed and 610 00:23:20,999 --> 00:23:19,599 still be fully relativistic because if 611 00:23:22,859 --> 00:23:21,009 the produced universe is 4d space-time 612 00:23:24,899 --> 00:23:22,869 or 40 space-time compliant in the 613 00:23:27,299 --> 00:23:24,909 transformations boom we get relativity 614 00:23:31,109 --> 00:23:27,309 for free time to all this stuff 615 00:23:32,869 --> 00:23:31,119 no problem so we need to tool up for 616 00:23:35,039 --> 00:23:32,879 Concilium we need to embrace 617 00:23:37,379 --> 00:23:35,049 introspection and abduction things like 618 00:23:38,879 --> 00:23:37,389 that we need to consider the Genesis 619 00:23:40,919 --> 00:23:38,889 question this is what I've been doing as 620 00:23:42,180 --> 00:23:40,929 I've been developing the model I'm just 621 00:23:44,219 --> 00:23:42,190 telling you what I did this is not 622 00:23:45,659 --> 00:23:44,229 theoretical I have and you know who's 623 00:23:49,139 --> 00:23:45,669 the fuzzy stuff this is what I've been 624 00:23:50,999 --> 00:23:49,149 doing so what's the one I'm thinking is 625 00:23:53,430 --> 00:23:51,009 we need to embrace humility because 626 00:23:55,769 --> 00:23:53,440 again we're not that important in the 627 00:23:56,940 --> 00:23:55,779 universe there's a great video on Google 628 00:23:57,810 --> 00:23:56,950 you've probably seen it if you haven't 629 00:23:59,070 --> 00:23:57,820 takes check it out 630 00:24:01,619 --> 00:23:59,080 it's young ladies sitting on top of the 631 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:01,629 Google complex in San Francisco the 632 00:24:05,099 --> 00:24:03,369 video pulls out the simulation pulls out 633 00:24:06,570 --> 00:24:05,109 we see the Googleplex we see the west 634 00:24:08,489 --> 00:24:06,580 coast in San Francisco you know what 635 00:24:10,799 --> 00:24:08,499 we've gone out in space we see the 636 00:24:12,499 --> 00:24:10,809 causal system it makes the point by the 637 00:24:15,629 --> 00:24:12,509 time we get to the edge of the universe 638 00:24:16,799 --> 00:24:15,639 which of course is simulation we see the 639 00:24:18,450 --> 00:24:16,809 poem make the point pretty clear 640 00:24:20,999 --> 00:24:18,460 you aren't that important get over 641 00:24:22,619 --> 00:24:21,009 yourselves and there are some issues of 642 00:24:25,590 --> 00:24:22,629 guarding that we have a real problems in 643 00:24:27,509 --> 00:24:25,600 philosophy and in science because that's 644 00:24:29,279 --> 00:24:27,519 that's part of the ignorance too so I'm 645 00:24:30,419 --> 00:24:29,289 going to suggest in addition to striving 646 00:24:33,060 --> 00:24:30,429 for what I've tried to do in my entire 647 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:33,070 life the objective open-minded critical 648 00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:34,210 thinker but look at all sides of a 649 00:24:35,879 --> 00:24:35,440 question blah blah blah all that good 650 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:35,889 stuff 651 00:24:44,399 --> 00:24:39,730 discard the intellectual baggage get rid 652 00:24:45,779 --> 00:24:44,409 of anthropocentrism we don't need it are 653 00:24:50,759 --> 00:24:45,789 we really the most important thing on 654 00:24:52,649 --> 00:24:50,769 the planet in the universe really does 655 00:24:55,739 --> 00:24:52,659 the mystery of a mystery to us 656 00:24:57,139 --> 00:24:55,749 consciousness qualify as the basis of 657 00:25:00,989 --> 00:24:57,149 reality 658 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:00,999 really I don't think nature would agree 659 00:25:06,450 --> 00:25:03,369 with you not based on our cosmological 660 00:25:08,549 --> 00:25:06,460 significance I don't think so and of 661 00:25:11,730 --> 00:25:08,559 course as we've seen the idealism and 662 00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:11,740 pen psychism is baggage we have to have 663 00:25:16,379 --> 00:25:13,200 because we haven't got a better answer 664 00:25:18,090 --> 00:25:16,389 if you accept the possibility that this 665 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:18,100 or something like at the deep reality 666 00:25:24,299 --> 00:25:21,490 model is the better thing then should 667 00:25:26,340 --> 00:25:24,309 you not discharge idealism pants autism 668 00:25:28,970 --> 00:25:26,350 and anthropocentrism I would say yes you 669 00:25:31,350 --> 00:25:28,980 mr. Deason disagree but I would say yes 670 00:25:34,489 --> 00:25:31,360 now a very strange thing has happened 671 00:25:37,259 --> 00:25:34,499 here by the way this is kind of my hero 672 00:25:39,470 --> 00:25:37,269 he famously said you know this one we 673 00:25:41,609 --> 00:25:39,480 can't solve our problems the old way 674 00:25:43,109 --> 00:25:41,619 that's kind of the bottom line to the 675 00:25:45,779 --> 00:25:43,119 whole you got to move forward 676 00:25:46,999 --> 00:25:45,789 all right ain't going to happen okay I'd 677 00:25:50,850 --> 00:25:47,009 like to hi why I'm sure anything is cool 678 00:25:51,930 --> 00:25:50,860 so actually I think we're done I can't 679 00:25:53,039 --> 00:25:51,940 believe it we are thank you for 680 00:25:56,999 --> 00:25:53,049 listening I really appreciate I'm John 681 00:26:09,080 --> 00:25:57,009 strong thank you thank you so the 682 00:26:14,180 --> 00:26:11,460 oK we've got a little more time than 683 00:26:16,890 --> 00:26:14,190 usual for questions or comments anybody 684 00:26:18,710 --> 00:26:16,900 my plan was to fill out the things I 685 00:26:21,860 --> 00:26:18,720 didn't say I knew I could trust you 686 00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:21,870 [Laughter] 687 00:26:25,500 --> 00:26:24,130 trying to fill it out because I figured 688 00:26:26,550 --> 00:26:25,510 you guys would have certain things you'd 689 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:26,560 want to know that I intentionally 690 00:26:39,150 --> 00:26:28,090 wouldn't cover do like a little like a 691 00:26:42,450 --> 00:26:39,160 time I'm afraid that I'm I'm not 692 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:42,460 terribly impressed with this discussion 693 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:46,570 of the deep reality model because as as 694 00:26:52,260 --> 00:26:50,410 you've portrayed it it seems to explain 695 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:52,270 everything and therefore explain nothing 696 00:26:58,170 --> 00:26:56,050 I mean I I can explain everything 697 00:27:02,180 --> 00:26:58,180 equally well by saying that all our 698 00:27:03,930 --> 00:27:02,190 experience are due to the 25th century 699 00:27:05,910 --> 00:27:03,940 neurobiologists who are maintaining us 700 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:05,920 all as brains and nutrient vats and 701 00:27:10,170 --> 00:27:07,450 feeding at the very feeding us the 702 00:27:12,120 --> 00:27:10,180 experiences they want us to have yes I 703 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:12,130 would agree York that the issue is here 704 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:13,570 there are a number of ways that could be 705 00:27:18,360 --> 00:27:15,490 done in fact I'll take York once tell 706 00:27:20,490 --> 00:27:18,370 all CEO York's comment and up at one you 707 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:20,500 could also say that we're living in a 708 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:22,330 static universe where everything has 709 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:23,890 already been decided we don't need this 710 00:27:28,290 --> 00:27:26,650 model there's only one mystery and it's 711 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:28,300 how the devil do we get from point A to 712 00:27:31,590 --> 00:27:30,250 point B as living organisms with 713 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:31,600 experiences so yes the point being 714 00:27:35,610 --> 00:27:34,090 there's a lot of ways of doing it and I 715 00:27:38,010 --> 00:27:35,620 don't think and this is my point 716 00:27:41,970 --> 00:27:38,020 he's gotta hit on the key point we 717 00:27:44,370 --> 00:27:41,980 probably never will know the nature of 718 00:27:45,690 --> 00:27:44,380 deep reality or things like it now how 719 00:27:47,010 --> 00:27:45,700 would we falsify because that's an 720 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:47,020 obvious question to ask at this point 721 00:27:50,790 --> 00:27:49,330 we'd falsified by discovering that 722 00:27:52,170 --> 00:27:50,800 everything can be explained in 4d 723 00:27:54,660 --> 00:27:52,180 space-time or something like that 724 00:27:55,740 --> 00:27:54,670 that's the perfect falsification I don't 725 00:27:57,630 --> 00:27:55,750 know if the other ideas would falsify 726 00:28:02,400 --> 00:27:57,640 the same way but yes there is an issue 727 00:28:04,770 --> 00:28:02,410 and I completely agree that hi there so 728 00:28:07,350 --> 00:28:04,780 I'm obviously haven't wrapped my mind 729 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:07,360 around this but my initial impression is 730 00:28:11,550 --> 00:28:09,250 that you're making a Phyllis you kind of 731 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:11,560 confounding philosophy and science and 732 00:28:14,570 --> 00:28:14,050 you're making a skeptical argument 733 00:28:18,649 --> 00:28:14,580 philosophic 734 00:28:20,779 --> 00:28:18,659 speaking but you're not necessarily 735 00:28:22,519 --> 00:28:20,789 grounding that skeptical argument 736 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:22,529 properly in other words there is a much 737 00:28:28,250 --> 00:28:26,010 more involved philosophical task to be 738 00:28:33,169 --> 00:28:28,260 done here so for example as an example 739 00:28:34,820 --> 00:28:33,179 of possible solutions so there's a it's 740 00:28:37,250 --> 00:28:34,830 a Canadian theologian and philosopher 741 00:28:39,169 --> 00:28:37,260 Bernard Lonergan wrote it like a massive 742 00:28:41,990 --> 00:28:39,179 book like this called insight where he 743 00:28:44,180 --> 00:28:42,000 tries to ground metaphysics he says 744 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:44,190 prior to any metaphysics or any kind of 745 00:28:49,340 --> 00:28:45,450 worldview that you present you have to 746 00:28:51,919 --> 00:28:49,350 to articulate an epitome epistemology a 747 00:28:55,250 --> 00:28:51,929 conditional theory and prior to that you 748 00:28:57,980 --> 00:28:55,260 have to articulate like in for an 749 00:29:01,340 --> 00:28:57,990 operational theory which is like what am 750 00:29:04,250 --> 00:29:01,350 i doing when I come to know anything so 751 00:29:05,659 --> 00:29:04,260 I think you know whatever you're doing 752 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:05,669 here I think there's more work to be 753 00:29:11,299 --> 00:29:08,970 done in grounding it in in that question 754 00:29:13,159 --> 00:29:11,309 and and Lonergan's answer is something 755 00:29:16,009 --> 00:29:13,169 to the effect of that there are certain 756 00:29:19,460 --> 00:29:16,019 operations that we cannot avoid doing 757 00:29:21,740 --> 00:29:19,470 whenever we make any claim hmm right so 758 00:29:24,799 --> 00:29:21,750 it's same as the argument against total 759 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:24,809 skepticism that you're making it and a 760 00:29:28,220 --> 00:29:27,090 positive claim that of not knowing 761 00:29:31,759 --> 00:29:28,230 anything for example right it's not 762 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:31,769 coherent so so the conditional theory 763 00:29:36,110 --> 00:29:34,370 has to be ultimately articulated and 764 00:29:38,029 --> 00:29:36,120 Lonergan's argument if it's there 765 00:29:40,820 --> 00:29:38,039 certain it has a certain unavoidable 766 00:29:42,529 --> 00:29:40,830 structure to it well that involves 767 00:29:45,500 --> 00:29:42,539 consciousness how it happens to involve 768 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:45,510 consciousness necessarily simply because 769 00:29:51,019 --> 00:29:47,570 any claim that you're making is a claim 770 00:29:53,799 --> 00:29:51,029 coming from a point of consciousness 771 00:29:56,450 --> 00:29:53,809 right so I just wanted to bring this up 772 00:29:58,759 --> 00:29:56,460 okay as something to think about the 773 00:30:01,100 --> 00:29:58,769 nature of the model claims that 774 00:30:04,639 --> 00:30:01,110 everything you just said originates in 775 00:30:07,340 --> 00:30:04,649 the model every idea every theme every 776 00:30:10,370 --> 00:30:07,350 archetype the idea of redness color all 777 00:30:12,980 --> 00:30:10,380 that so wow I got your large here just 778 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:12,990 proposing a kind of I by the logic and I 779 00:30:17,659 --> 00:30:14,970 think in time people who are much more 780 00:30:18,830 --> 00:30:17,669 educated in the philosophy than I will 781 00:30:20,899 --> 00:30:18,840 probably look at this and tear it apart 782 00:30:23,060 --> 00:30:20,909 and say some will say yes and some will 783 00:30:24,470 --> 00:30:23,070 say no there'll be a lot of polemics 784 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:24,480 that will be generated on 785 00:30:28,940 --> 00:30:26,730 if anybody you know if it picks up and 786 00:30:30,770 --> 00:30:28,950 maybe one want to like it but the point 787 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:30,780 of it is this is a bootstrap it's a 788 00:30:34,550 --> 00:30:32,370 starting point it's a way of thinking 789 00:30:37,370 --> 00:30:34,560 the real important deal here is if we 790 00:30:39,350 --> 00:30:37,380 get causation out of the universe we're 791 00:30:42,470 --> 00:30:39,360 willing to accept a deep reality exists 792 00:30:44,030 --> 00:30:42,480 the whole game changes that's the 793 00:30:46,580 --> 00:30:44,040 message I really want to leave with you 794 00:30:48,620 --> 00:30:46,590 folks and I'm hoping that scientists and 795 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:48,630 philosophers maybe not buying it today 796 00:30:53,510 --> 00:30:51,570 but will actually say to themselves wait 797 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:53,520 a minute I remember that silly 798 00:30:57,860 --> 00:30:56,250 presentation five years ago I didn't buy 799 00:30:59,840 --> 00:30:57,870 any but wait a minute this actually 800 00:31:06,560 --> 00:30:59,850 makes some sense that's I want to 801 00:31:08,510 --> 00:31:06,570 bootstrap one kid one kid one kid and if 802 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:08,520 anybody wins a Nobel Prize on the back 803 00:31:13,100 --> 00:31:11,370 of any of this that's more than payback 804 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:13,110 for me I don't care if you believe it I 805 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:15,090 think it was a truth seeker you learned 806 00:31:18,740 --> 00:31:17,130 you can't worry about what other people 807 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:18,750 think you really can't tell so you'll 808 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:19,410 never get anything done 809 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:21,450 Paul so essentially this talk is an 810 00:31:25,310 --> 00:31:22,890 investment in the future is that what 811 00:31:27,290 --> 00:31:25,320 you're saying yes it is I'm softly in 812 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:27,300 touch with my future self so that's how 813 00:31:31,610 --> 00:31:28,410 it worked that's how I roll 814 00:31:33,500 --> 00:31:31,620 okay so the first thing is the causal 815 00:31:35,180 --> 00:31:33,510 closure argument and David sharp talked 816 00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:35,190 a bit about that and we're all in 817 00:31:38,810 --> 00:31:35,910 agreement on that 818 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:38,820 in fact implicitly anybody who believes 819 00:31:43,910 --> 00:31:42,210 in the reality this phenomenon is at 820 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:43,920 least betting that causes of closures 821 00:31:47,660 --> 00:31:45,930 false yeah yeah I know your paper you 822 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:47,670 talked about it yeah yeah there's great 823 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:50,490 are great arguments in against it 824 00:31:54,530 --> 00:31:51,930 because it really is just a metaphysical 825 00:31:57,260 --> 00:31:54,540 assertion if way it's sort of a 826 00:31:59,300 --> 00:31:57,270 tautology it actually comes through the 827 00:32:02,660 --> 00:31:59,310 conclusion that it assumes right you 828 00:32:04,220 --> 00:32:02,670 know but a physicalist has to have it or 829 00:32:06,530 --> 00:32:04,230 it doesn't or physicalism doesn't work 830 00:32:08,180 --> 00:32:06,540 right but now I'm gonna ask you a 831 00:32:10,940 --> 00:32:08,190 question which may betray my 832 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:10,950 obliviousness or something so the the 833 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:13,730 simplest formulation of david chalmers 834 00:32:20,020 --> 00:32:16,770 heart problem is that essentially how 835 00:32:22,010 --> 00:32:20,030 does a physical construct like a body 836 00:32:24,380 --> 00:32:22,020 experience the things that we experience 837 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:24,390 those conscious experiences the feelings 838 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:28,490 kind of smells you know the experience 839 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:31,050 yeah that's interesting 840 00:32:37,030 --> 00:32:34,010 I'm making a claim that's hard to verify 841 00:32:39,730 --> 00:32:37,040 let me actually 842 00:32:41,470 --> 00:32:39,740 yeah so that's the simplest formulation 843 00:32:44,740 --> 00:32:41,480 of and it's fairly easy for anybody to 844 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:44,750 understand how can a body actually have 845 00:32:49,570 --> 00:32:46,730 that the feeling you get when you see 846 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:49,580 red right so I guess what I didn't get 847 00:32:53,730 --> 00:32:51,770 was a clear understanding of how you 848 00:32:56,140 --> 00:32:53,740 think what you're talking about 849 00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:56,150 solves that problem and that may have 850 00:33:00,220 --> 00:32:57,530 been a lack of attention on my part 851 00:33:01,690 --> 00:33:00,230 maybe they leave something out okay this 852 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:01,700 may or may not be satisfactory but I did 853 00:33:04,270 --> 00:33:02,810 leave something out this critical in 854 00:33:06,460 --> 00:33:04,280 this book okay so I'll leave it at that 855 00:33:08,530 --> 00:33:06,470 and maybe you can yeah yeah make me 856 00:33:10,900 --> 00:33:08,540 smarter so hopefully hopefully make 857 00:33:12,970 --> 00:33:10,910 sense the key to the whole thing is that 858 00:33:14,650 --> 00:33:12,980 the physics is different than we know 859 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:14,660 that's the first thing we have to accept 860 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:17,090 the physics is different than we know so 861 00:33:23,350 --> 00:33:20,690 I believe that what we call matter and 862 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:23,360 mind are manipulations of some proto 863 00:33:27,460 --> 00:33:26,090 substance that is actually at the basis 864 00:33:28,690 --> 00:33:27,470 of reality kind of the ground state of 865 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:28,700 everything when we used to say in the 866 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:31,370 80s and these transformations are really 867 00:33:36,430 --> 00:33:34,090 manipulating that that's what mine is 868 00:33:39,310 --> 00:33:36,440 underneath all of this to address Paul's 869 00:33:43,090 --> 00:33:39,320 direct question there are archetypes red 870 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:43,100 colors structures emotions numbers as in 871 00:33:48,970 --> 00:33:45,770 the eye change and this is what branches 872 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:48,980 across everything so the archetype of 873 00:33:53,140 --> 00:33:51,050 red when material I have put through the 874 00:33:55,570 --> 00:33:53,150 material process the stuff that returns 875 00:33:57,490 --> 00:33:55,580 into matter as we see it correct creates 876 00:34:01,000 --> 00:33:57,500 a shirt like this on a photon that's 877 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:01,010 right at the right frequency and when we 878 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:03,770 put that same archetype through the 879 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:05,690 mental process we'll call it that for 880 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:08,690 lack of a better term we get redness the 881 00:34:11,710 --> 00:34:10,010 quality and there was Chris explains 882 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:11,720 qualia which is kind of the heart I 883 00:34:16,419 --> 00:34:13,010 think of it Paul's going for in that 884 00:34:18,340 --> 00:34:16,429 question it's it's a it's a stretch but 885 00:34:20,110 --> 00:34:18,350 I don't know of a better one everything 886 00:34:22,690 --> 00:34:20,120 also have heard is all kind of circular 887 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:22,700 arguments but embedded in a lot of 888 00:34:27,070 --> 00:34:25,090 academic talk that I can't understand 889 00:34:28,300 --> 00:34:27,080 frankly and maybe that's part of the 890 00:34:30,550 --> 00:34:28,310 problem maybe I'm having the same 891 00:34:32,590 --> 00:34:30,560 problem you're having Paul but I haven't 892 00:34:34,630 --> 00:34:32,600 heard a clear explanation of how Colyer 893 00:34:35,980 --> 00:34:34,640 works from anybody I also have heard a 894 00:34:37,870 --> 00:34:35,990 clear explanation from any physicist 895 00:34:40,210 --> 00:34:37,880 despite assurances people like you prize 896 00:34:42,850 --> 00:34:40,220 and others Jack Sarfati has this thing 897 00:34:45,250 --> 00:34:42,860 through to actually explain how a static 898 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:45,260 universe could contain motion I'd love 899 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:46,370 if you're a physicist and you think you 900 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:48,410 can explain that in English please come 901 00:34:50,730 --> 00:34:49,450 and see 902 00:34:52,020 --> 00:34:50,740 but I want to hear the arguments 903 00:34:54,060 --> 00:34:52,030 obviously I'm missing it but back to 904 00:34:56,399 --> 00:34:54,070 Paul's point it is the nature of the 905 00:34:58,950 --> 00:34:56,409 deep reality it is very it is unload it 906 00:35:00,030 --> 00:34:58,960 is very flexible it breaks most of the 907 00:35:01,410 --> 00:35:00,040 back you found all the boundaries we 908 00:35:04,109 --> 00:35:01,420 know about it's just a whole different 909 00:35:05,930 --> 00:35:04,119 place and these archetypes link together 910 00:35:09,089 --> 00:35:05,940 they are given a surface for example 911 00:35:11,220 --> 00:35:09,099 manifesting as that but also manifesting 912 00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:11,230 is the concept of linearity they say 913 00:35:13,740 --> 00:35:12,880 those archetypes it's kind of what we're 914 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:13,750 dealing with here so that's that's my 915 00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:16,570 brief answer to kind of deal with how to 916 00:35:20,609 --> 00:35:18,730 solve we're approaching it I must say if 917 00:35:22,410 --> 00:35:20,619 your pure solution but I think I'm going 918 00:35:24,390 --> 00:35:22,420 in the right direction and if someone 919 00:35:26,460 --> 00:35:24,400 were to follow that I honestly believe 920 00:35:28,140 --> 00:35:26,470 that yeah and with all the comments 921 00:35:29,970 --> 00:35:28,150 about how you do it philosophically and 922 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:29,980 all the necessary you know checks and 923 00:35:33,690 --> 00:35:32,530 balances dots and crosses I think that 924 00:35:35,579 --> 00:35:33,700 something very interesting could emerge 925 00:35:37,170 --> 00:35:35,589 from that again this is the bootstrap 926 00:35:38,220 --> 00:35:37,180 this is the first time out never said 927 00:35:39,359 --> 00:35:38,230 this to anybody before 928 00:35:41,730 --> 00:35:39,369 and so that you're the first audience 929 00:35:48,780 --> 00:35:41,740 and all your comments are valuable how 930 00:35:52,010 --> 00:35:48,790 we do on time Brenda okay this is crazy 931 00:35:54,210 --> 00:35:52,020 I really thought was gonna run over so 932 00:35:56,130 --> 00:35:54,220 I'm a little confused with your last 933 00:35:58,920 --> 00:35:56,140 explanation because that sounds very 934 00:36:01,200 --> 00:35:58,930 much like idealism or neoplatonism so 935 00:36:03,839 --> 00:36:01,210 you just said you didn't want to resort 936 00:36:06,740 --> 00:36:03,849 to idealism wear pants psychism mm-hmm 937 00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:06,750 yet in your notion of a latent model 938 00:36:13,170 --> 00:36:10,720 your thing that as latent is some sort 939 00:36:16,530 --> 00:36:13,180 of an ideal that you are getting the 940 00:36:18,300 --> 00:36:16,540 quality foam for the claudius oh well I 941 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:18,310 what I want to avoid is using the word 942 00:36:23,820 --> 00:36:20,530 consciousness beyond its normal 943 00:36:25,829 --> 00:36:23,830 definition it's a seductive deceptive 944 00:36:29,010 --> 00:36:25,839 term in my opinion maybe you don't agree 945 00:36:31,589 --> 00:36:29,020 but I believe it is it leads to possibly 946 00:36:33,660 --> 00:36:31,599 sloppy logic it can you can begin 947 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:33,670 conflating things without realizing it I 948 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:35,530 see that a lot in the writings 949 00:36:39,270 --> 00:36:37,330 especially in philosophy especially in 950 00:36:42,270 --> 00:36:39,280 folks who are promoting idealism 951 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:42,280 especially I see that a lot I think if 952 00:36:46,230 --> 00:36:44,770 you take various and what I've noticed 953 00:36:47,609 --> 00:36:46,240 in philosophy there seem to be various 954 00:36:50,099 --> 00:36:47,619 perspectives and you actually mentioned 955 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:50,109 two right there on this notion of 956 00:36:54,500 --> 00:36:51,970 idealism so I'm probably going to have 957 00:36:56,490 --> 00:36:54,510 to use some idealistic concepts 958 00:36:58,589 --> 00:36:56,500 necessarily follow them what the other 959 00:37:00,120 --> 00:36:58,599 gentleman said in order to explain it 960 00:37:01,370 --> 00:37:00,130 but I don't have to buy into 961 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:01,380 consciousness being fun 962 00:37:05,510 --> 00:37:03,930 mental which is another nature of 963 00:37:07,310 --> 00:37:05,520 idealist in order to go there and I 964 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:07,320 realize that's contentious I get that I 965 00:37:12,350 --> 00:37:10,770 get that if you have a follow-up yeah I 966 00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:12,360 live here this is what I hear I really 967 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:14,250 instead I just see what you're saying is 968 00:37:18,260 --> 00:37:16,770 a semiotic differences it's amazing that 969 00:37:19,910 --> 00:37:18,270 a different way please I'm not into 970 00:37:21,530 --> 00:37:19,920 academic talk can you tell us say that 971 00:37:24,110 --> 00:37:21,540 in simple words please yeah the words 972 00:37:25,670 --> 00:37:24,120 you're using have been defined in a 973 00:37:27,410 --> 00:37:25,680 different way than the way you're using 974 00:37:30,530 --> 00:37:27,420 them for most of us okay and so that 975 00:37:36,500 --> 00:37:30,540 confuses us okay right now is a very 976 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:36,510 platonic idealistic notion of how latent 977 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:38,370 variables are hidden variables work in 978 00:37:42,410 --> 00:37:40,410 the world and the way you want to 979 00:37:43,700 --> 00:37:42,420 describe them this seems different than 980 00:37:46,370 --> 00:37:43,710 that you're not wanting them to be 981 00:37:50,630 --> 00:37:46,380 things that are just not well I'm fully 982 00:37:52,010 --> 00:37:50,640 aware self-generating yeah fully aware 983 00:37:53,810 --> 00:37:52,020 of that and that's a good feedback I see 984 00:37:55,730 --> 00:37:53,820 that helped because once you put it in 985 00:37:56,630 --> 00:37:55,740 simple English for me it became crystal 986 00:37:58,160 --> 00:37:56,640 clear what you were trying to say to me 987 00:37:59,810 --> 00:37:58,170 and I can understand it's very good 988 00:38:00,950 --> 00:37:59,820 feedback that's part of the problem 989 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:00,960 right there I asked you to do that 990 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:02,130 because I wanted to demonstrate the 991 00:38:07,310 --> 00:38:04,890 problem and that's and that's but I 992 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:07,320 think you're right I think I'm a 993 00:38:12,860 --> 00:38:09,690 cognitive scientist I have this problem 994 00:38:15,290 --> 00:38:12,870 with physicists who whose idea of 995 00:38:17,780 --> 00:38:15,300 measurement problem is about precision 996 00:38:19,970 --> 00:38:17,790 not about construct validity yeah 997 00:38:23,240 --> 00:38:19,980 Concilium is gonna require a type of 998 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:23,250 construct validation that we've nowhere 999 00:38:29,660 --> 00:38:26,850 even near so measurement issues are 1000 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:29,670 gonna need reliability validation bias 1001 00:38:32,750 --> 00:38:32,010 right need to come on top of us speaking 1002 00:38:34,460 --> 00:38:32,760 the same language 1003 00:38:35,750 --> 00:38:34,470 yeah we're just there the bottom line 1004 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:35,760 we're not there yet I agree with you I 1005 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:36,690 think everyone in this room probably 1006 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:38,490 agrees at that point thank you very much 1007 00:38:48,950 --> 00:38:46,050 you're very helpful so I'm a physicist 1008 00:38:49,910 --> 00:38:48,960 who has problems with physicists and I 1009 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:49,920 have a comment that has absolutely 1010 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:55,530 nothing to do with you or your talk few 1011 00:38:59,930 --> 00:38:56,850 questions we're actually on to 1012 00:39:01,220 --> 00:38:59,940 never-never 11 but whatever back ok cool 1013 00:39:05,300 --> 00:39:01,230 but it does tie in to the last comment 1014 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:05,310 ok and that is as an idea just to tick 1015 00:39:07,769 --> 00:39:06,130 it out there for 1016 00:39:10,559 --> 00:39:07,779 society when they're thinking about it 1017 00:39:12,599 --> 00:39:10,569 future meetings one of the themes that's 1018 00:39:15,900 --> 00:39:12,609 come up in a number of conversations 1019 00:39:17,819 --> 00:39:15,910 already both in discussions and our 1020 00:39:21,509 --> 00:39:17,829 parting in presentations and in sidebars 1021 00:39:23,940 --> 00:39:21,519 discussions is what language has to 1022 00:39:27,720 --> 00:39:23,950 offer and the ways that language can be 1023 00:39:29,579 --> 00:39:27,730 effective and ineffective and as an idea 1024 00:39:31,019 --> 00:39:29,589 or a theme or in somehow being able to 1025 00:39:32,579 --> 00:39:31,029 incorporate in future meetings that 1026 00:39:34,279 --> 00:39:32,589 would propose that that might be a 1027 00:39:37,349 --> 00:39:34,289 subject that's worth exploring 1028 00:39:39,089 --> 00:39:37,359 especially if we're gonna follow on and 1029 00:39:41,309 --> 00:39:39,099 continue to explore the idea of 1030 00:39:43,589 --> 00:39:41,319 Concilium so many people are agreeing 1031 00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:43,599 it's going to demand that we're much 1032 00:39:46,859 --> 00:39:45,250 more effective in our language so I 1033 00:39:48,450 --> 00:39:46,869 think that's a really great and if I 1034 00:39:49,829 --> 00:39:48,460 didn't put that on my list but if I'd 1035 00:39:52,019 --> 00:39:49,839 thought about it I would have because 1036 00:39:53,940 --> 00:39:52,029 it's a wonderful idea I imagine most of 1037 00:39:55,740 --> 00:39:53,950 us feel the same way yeah thank you very 1038 00:39:58,350 --> 00:39:55,750 much all done okay